domestic energy assessors

My partner started a DEA course and then our daughter became ill.  We informed the HIP trainining company that she coud not procede on the course and their reply was we had to find a replacement to get a proportional refund.  I am looking for evidence of clams against HIP providers but cannot find any, can you help.  We are looking to take them to the small claims course.

Regards

Stotty-cornwall

As much as this may hurt some of your feelings....

I was one of the first to qualify as a DEA. Saw the governments upcoming plans for HIPs and thought, like most of you, that this was a genuine, government backed, opportunity.

I'll not bore you with the governments ludicrous efforts in launching HIPs, but just say, I realised early on, before the original launch date, that the government were not doing a very good job of rolling this out. In fact, I'd go as far as saying that, had this been a private sector initiative, it would not have launched and they would all have been out of a job. But, what can you do.

As we all know, it gets worse doesn't it! The housing market has been on a steady decline and with the training companies promising untold wealth for becoming a DEA, we also have a massive influx of people training up, saturating the market.

So what does this all spell out? Well, if you have enough common sense to read the writing on the wall, it means, less work and more competition, which means YOU, yes you DEAs out there, should stop complaining about fees and wake up to the reality of our situation. These are tough times and business is business. The only way you're going to survive is some good honest hard work and having a head for business.

The market will recover one day and I plan on being around when it does. Do you?

S

I found this site today after having attended an 'interview' with a Training Provider in Birmingham this morning.

I found them to be very sales driven, telling me I was ideal for the role and their 'Recruitment Director' kept saying "I think you should do it"... well of course he would, it pays his wages!

In the end I turned round and said I wanted to think long and hard about the financial commitment and I'd get back to him.

They want £3,965 for a four module training course which would take place over 8 days. He told me that I could earn that money back in less than a month! (Now I knew he was full of ****!) That would mean being able to do about 40 in one month (working on the assumption I'd earn £100 per report).

He also told me to charge £50 per bedroom of the property... therefore charging most properties in my area £150-£200!! I know for a fact that nobody would pay that so it is unrealistic to expect this level of income. I also know how quiet the property market is at the moment so assuming I even got to do 1-2 a week, it would still take me over a year to pay it back.... 'Nonsense' he said... you can earn your course fees back in a month.

They were full of promises of fast-tracking me so that I was qualified ahead of 1st October - something I am sure they tell everyone.

Whilst I was in the interview, he took a call from someone who he told me was a single mother who had struggled to raise the money for the course and she had finally managed to scrape it together and would be taking the course over the coming months because she wanted to generate a new life and a new career path. I wish I'd grabbed the phone and told her to save her money and spend it on something useful!

I often think that if something sounds too good to be true then it usually is. It seems that this is the case with becoming a DEA and the training providers are only out to line their own pockets

Hi Guys,

I agree about the need for a union, at present DEAs seem to be running around without direction gladly accepting any scraps offered to them. I am in contact with some DEAs from my training course and one recently informed me that he is now doing EPCs AND floorplans for £35 each plus Lodegement fees.

I don't think I need to state how much the provider is making on this service... at this rate HIP and EPC providers will soon be running DEA 'sweat shops' across the UK. It's a far cry from £100 per EPC I was told 14 months ago.

I agree with all comments made . I am a qualified DEA and so is my partner we were accreditted Sept 2007 and have only had a minimal amount of work. 

The suggestion of a DEA Union would be a perfect idea to keep the epcs at a realistic price so that every DEA could make an honest living and to hit back at the pack providers that are controlling the market through trying to be competitive with other pack providers. 

Why should DEAs be made to work for peanuts? As for the panels reducing the cost of an epc from £45 to £40 that is ridiculous.

I myself think that we as DEAs should unite and not wait to see if or when other DEAs give it all up and return back to their previous jobs.

I would join a DEA union if it meant that we could make a decent living out of producing epcs.

THATS WHAT I THINK

I agree with the vast majority of comments posted to this site. Whilst trainers continue to run DEA courses uninterrupted  in the absence of any government regulation/intervention, I feel that we are still months and months away from turning the corner in this sorry saga.

The ingredients are there for all to see - market depression, lack of confidence across the board, falling property prices, looming economic recession, not to mention the credit crunch which continues to ripple out from across the pond the result of which makes lenders very picky who they lend therir money to. All of which contributes to the impact we are all experiencing.

It can be reasonably argued that the courses should cease with immediate effect. This short termist approach that simply lines the trainers pockets isn't doing anybody any favours in the long term - those coming into the profession with their sights still set (if they believe the literature) on earnings of £50,000 plus a year, nor  those of us who for the relatively short time we've spent doing this job have gleaned a good sense of the stark reality.

I qualified last summer, believing the propaganda that being a DEA would be a great new well paid profession. After a lifetime on the road in commercial insurance and mortgages, it seemed a great way to take me up to retirement.

Trained with Morgan Whittaker (they went bust), through Habitus and employed after qualification by them, but got very little work (they went bust), registered with various DEA panels, contacted loads of Estate agents, now average 4 or 5 calls a month from just one panel. What a waste of time and money!

I've just come back from a 70 mile round trip DEA call in which the householders told me they'd cancelled the call earlier in the day - but the panel hadn't told me, so not only have I wasted three hours, but also paid over £10 for petrol for the privilege. The call would have paid me  perhaps £50, less petrol, less fees, so perhaps an optimistic £25!  

If you're thinking of training as a DEA - walk away now - it's a waste of time and money, and with no sign of any real improvement in the housing market, and the vast majority of EPC call providers already committed to who they'll use, think of it as a non-starter.

If there were enough calls and each one paid even £75 (let's forget the £100/£120 we were initially quoted) it would be a great job - but I'm daydreaming.

Now call me naive if you wish but I prefer to think of it as optimism - I'm also one of the few who then wasted another £4000 undertaking a Level 3 Commercial EA training course with a well known establishment. I just about got through the week long course, but believe me it was much more intensive and complicated than I expected, not particularly in regard to energy efficiency, most of which can be mastered with experience, but with regard to the computer literacy and general background property knowledge needed.

On a course of around 25 people, perhaps three of us were qualified DEA's, the rest were surveyors, planners, architectural assistants, building engineers etc. - people with much more technical background knowledge. (And I've been a commercial insurance surveyor - so not totally inexperienced.) If I'd known this I wouldn't have wasted my money, but this did not come out at the open seminar I attended or in any pre-course literature. Yes, I know, buyer beware, but I do feel that this could have been made clearer.

I could have continued on to the completion of the Commercial Level 3 qualification had I been willing to devote the next four or five months to the remainder of the home-based course work and portfolio building, (and I didn't feel this had really been made clear before the course), but being only 2 years from retirement this seemed too heavy going and by the time Commercial Energy Assessments at level three (ie most of the smaller commercial properties) really get going which could be well after the 1 October, it wasn't likely to be much use to me, and to be honest at my age I've better ways of spending my spare time. Life is full of experiences isn't it!

I wish you well with your campaign. It really annoys me to see newspapers running adverts for DEA and CEA training. They are so misleading! Perhaps you should be approaching the Advertising Standards body.

Let's hope some business comes out of the lettings industry, and let's hope the Conservatives get in and drop HIPs leaving just freestanding EPC's - see I'm still optimistic, but probably naive as well.

Rich

I recently attended an introductory talk at BRE just before the implementation of the commercial EPC (I have decided not to spend any more money on upgrading from DEA). 

In the lecture theatre in front of a large audience I raised the issue of BRE continuing to promote the DEA training courses using the now well-worn promises in their promotional material and suggested that it was misleading and that they (BRE) should discontinue the courses.

I received no support from other DEAs in the room, in spite of all the ones I had spoken to beforehand  having complained of not being able to get work. The official stance is that no actual promises are made, and BRE clearly intends to make as much money as possible running training courses until the bubble bursts. 

It's good to see a truthful site. I think that the philosophy behind the policy to introduce EPCs is basically sound, it's just rather unfortunate that the implementation has been so badly managed.

Well done,
Michael. 

All I can say is that its a good job that I do not depend on Energy Assessments to make a living because I would have been in a soup kitchen by now!

There is very little business unless you are happy to work for nothing!

Fully agree with the comments made regarding too many assessors, training companies still pushing DEA courses and milking the system, fees being pushed down by large pack providers and of course the downturn in the housing market and the economy in general. 

But, I believe that once confidence is restored work will be forthcoming, and that we (DEA's) need to hold our nerve and weather the storm.  Work will eventually come, and I suspect that after taking all aspects into account there will the ability to earn a modest income, but not the high levels indicated in the press and as advertised on some training sites.

The negative comments being made by some members (rightly or wrongly) leads to a 'knock on' effect and ulimately leads to dispondency - are there any members about who can share some positive comments?  I have managed to get some limited work from a local solicitor, and whilst it is very few and far between it is enabling me to become established, obtain more experience thus become more expediant, and gives me encouragement for the future. 

I've no doubt it wont be a quick fix and it will possible be 12 months or more before the market is once again stable but i for one will invest in my accreditation for a further 12 months, which considering my costs to date is a small price to pay!

However, if DEA Local also believe that there are now ample DEA's and that too many courses still being advertised why then are they promoting them on the Home Page? 

I agree whole heartedly with those advising caution before embarking on the training road in fact I would (knowing what I now know) actively discourage any one from even considering it as a viable proposition in short to medium term.

Accredited at the end of 2007 I have just (in May 2008) reached a milestone in that I have now processed in excess of 10 EPCs all of which have come from a Panel.

Said panel has just reduced fees from £45 down to £40 siting in justification a need to be more price competitive in order to increase volume.

It seems to me that we are all suffering the same malady and that the solution lies in our own hands. It is a fact that ONLY qualified and accredited DEAs or HIs are legally able to produce an EPC.

Currently there are 7,000 plus of us able to fulfill this legal requirement. 7,000 plus individuals with a common voice would have a significant impact.

It seems to me that we should use the power of our numbers and simply refuse to work for less than an economically viable fee.

One comment suggested a DEA union - Why not? or at least a national association strong enough to apply pressure on behalf of its members. WHAT DO YOU THINK???

Having read all the posts from other DEA's, I agree that everything said rings true. 

I too was lured by the false claims of the training companies that there was BIG money to be earned and that the government was crying out for qualified DEA's to fill a "shortage gap", what a load of bull. 

I thought long and hard about the career change, I was between jobs and was looking for a new start.  I had saved some money to purchase a new kitchen and whilst looking on the net for new jobs, I came across the (convincing) ads for DEA's. 

I decided to take the plunge and purchase myself a new career.  I contacted the training company and was told I must hurry as the course I wanted to attend was almost full with only 1 place left and that I could fill it if I was quick. 

I agreed and parted with my new kitchen, hoping for a fantastic return (how wrong was I), might as well have thrown it into the wind.

When I arrived at the training venue, there were 3 empty seats in the room and the other 9 of us at the venue, we all found out had been given the same sales pitch to get us to sign on the course.  We were all livid of course and told the trainer who just smiled and said that he would have to have a word with his company to tell the sales dept to stop using such misleading tactics. 

It was evident at the end of the first day of training that the promise of lucative jobs was a thing of the past and by the trainers own submission, we would all struggle to find work, he knew this as he was a qualified DEA, who, as he could not get any work had joined the company as a trainer himself to make a living.

I qualified in January 2008 and to date I have completed 1 EPC, like all the DEA's out there I have mailshotted, cold called, telephoned and registered with HIP providers, but with no joy. 

As it is for me now, I'm working for a bank in a customer call centre and my kitchen is still not renewed, but on the brighter side I can get a cheap loan.

My message to anyone thinking of becoming a DEA:-

DO NOT DO IT, THERE IS VERY LITTLE WORK.

Neil Grifffiths DipDEA (for what it's worth)

It is true that there are too many DEAs at present. I wonder how many will be practicing full-time this time next year? I would hazard a guess at half the number at present.

We run a Home Information Pack business and often receive phone calls looking for advice on whether to enter the business; we don't try and put people offer as there are certainly advantages to the HIP and EPC business though trying to paint an accurrate picture of current conditions for DEAs.

I have written a post on this issue over at my blog examining this further and welcome comments and suggestion to improving the situation. Should I train as a domestic energy assessor?

If you are thinking of becoming a DEA think again. I have been trading since September 2007 as a DEA/ HIP provider. My figures are low and I struggle every month to pay my bills and keep the wolfs from my door. 

The money I have spent on training and setting up a business could have worked for me in some other way without all this upset, anger and worry.

At the time of training all these problems were not apparent in the industry of Home Information Packs. The Government have got this very wrong and are continuing to get it wrong, all training courses should be stopped and DEA's should have more control over there pricing for EPC's.

DEA's have shown they are not out to make a quike buck there are far to many of us still trying to secure work for ourselves rather than jumping ship.

Pack providers have done nothing to help DEA's they have cut the EPC fee down to as little as £45.00 and less in some cases so that they can keep there HIP price competative and still keep there profits up.

So if you are thinking of becoming a DEA think again.

I now have to put my suit on and find some work for this week.

Greg Hurst DEA woking/guildford and any other part of the country within a one and half hour drive.

1) Anyone going into this industry thinking it was going to be a bed of roses after the initial setbacks was mistaken

2) Anyone going into this industry after August of 2007 was most likely mistaken unless they had some decent contacts

We are clearly dealing with some major issues. Namely:

• Too many DEA's trained up
• A poor housing market
• Unprofessional DEA's.

Yes, that's right! There are many comments on this site about DEA's living from "scraps" etc. This is a problem of their own making.

If a DEA is prepared to accept a job for £45 and then travel 50 miles to do it, then this is clearly an error on the part of the DEA. Much better to turn the work down on price even if it means someone else getting the work.

If enough DEA's turn around to the cowboy suppliers and refuse to work for them, they will have to either put their fees up or go out of business. It is really that simple.

The price is already governed by the DEA's. It's just that some of them are being rather silly about the fees they are willing to work for.

Why keep the fees higher you ask?

Ok, here goes.

Increasing fuel costs, Insurances, Lodgement Fees, Accreditation, CPD for a start. But here is the most important thing:

Imagine you are a DEA doing 6 epc's a day. You  have to do 6 a day because you are only getting £40 for each one. You are going to make a mistake. Okay, chances are this mistake might go unnoticed.

But... make enough of them and one of them will get noticed and then (hopefully) that's you out of a job and it serves you right for overburdening yourself in the first place.

However, it doesn't stop there. You have now damaged the industry. The public lose faith in DEA's and this comes to the attention of the government at ministerial level. They won't look at the route causes they will simply remove the problem. That, in this case, is the selfish DEA who insists he has to do 6 epc's a day for £40 each. Wake up. Please.

Now imagine you are a DEA doing 3 epc's a day. All of a sudden, there is twice the amount of work to go around because instead of doing 6 epc's a day, each DEA is only doing 3 per day. You can now produce a quality EPC, free of mistakes.

The industry gains some respect. You hold out for a decent fee (say £65 for each one) and there you have it - £195 a day with enough time built in to sort out your credit control, do some business development and have a look at a bit of CPD. Also, you are earning enough money to see you through some of the leaner times when the property market is having problems.

Make sense? it does to me.

As for joining the profession, I would say that unless you have some decent contacts who will be able to supply you with work, it is probably not worth it unless you are looking for a part time career and are prepared to pay a large fee to get trained.

I totally agree with the comments posted.

When I intially though about training to be a Domestic Energy Assessor in 2007, I was sold the dream of this new industry ... but with delays in implementation and the sheer number of qualified assessors the industry is barely viable if you're just providing EPCs.

I'm in contact with numerous assessors from all across the country and a good week for them is 2-3 assessments, earning them just over £100 after costs.

I remember being told EPCs would be over £100 a time and in fact they were for about 2 weeks, but the competition amongst DEA's has just sent prices tumbling.

I recently heard that one provider was paying £32 per EPC! - I can not begrudge any DEA working for such a fee... we all have our burdens and bills to pay but the lack of unity and singular voice has been to our collective detriment.

With DEAs ever willing to accept less and less for an EPC the pack providers and other associated middlemen are laughing all the way to the bank.

Worse still is on going marketing and advertising by training providers, which I believe is totally misleading, if a DEA training now manages to earn £40k+ doing EPCs then I need that DEAs number.

Look on forums and talk to professionals out there before giving up your hard earned cash chasing what could become a nightmare.

There was an EU directive to control and reduce energy use and Co2 emmissions at home. The government have hijacked the processed so they can obtain data free on dwellings in the country, not to reduce energy.

The market is a free for all and is letting DEA compete against each other without any control on numbers being qualified and satisfying demand . The price is dropping as a result in any areas , which makes it diluted with your earnings potential.

By default the only people making any money are the traniners and a total lack of control by Governement through the department of Communities and Local Government.

It is an outrageous situation and could be viewed as a government Con.........It is time that a Union is Formed by all the DEA to control the market, share the EPCs and control the price on the market . . . I hope you all agree.

There may be grounds to sue the governtment here and training providers if the market is not put under control ... ;