domestic energy assessors
Flogging a dead horse!
About a year ago I, along with many others, was taken in, conned, call it what you like, into training to become a domestic energy assessor. The rewards, so it claimed, would be fantastic. With each inspection being worth between £100 and £130 each, earnings of up to £80k pa could be achieved!
The reality is somewhat different. With the number of assessors either qualified or in training now reaching over 13,000 (not including Home Inspectors!), the government figures of 4,500 needed to carry out energy assessment seems to be somewhat over subscribed. And training companies still seem to be recruiting even more gulable people to train to be a domestic energy assessor, at a time when the country does not need any more!! Why does’nt the government stop this ludicrous situation.
The cost of an EPC, depending where you are in the country, ranges from £35 to £70. This also depends on who commissions the EPC. I have been offered work for landlords, from one panel, who are prepared to pay me £40. It would mean a round trip of nearly 70 miles, and probably about 1.5 hours travelling. They would not commit to saying if it was just one, or two or three on the same day. Even then you would have consider whether it was worth it. Take out fuel costs, lodgement fees, preparing site notes, downloading photos, floor plans, blah blah, then the initial £120 for the day is somewhat reduced in terms of the time it takes to complete the assessment.
Another panel offered me the same sort of deal, £40, but also said that there were certain assessments that I could get £55 for. However, when I said I would not do an assessment for less than £50, and that would be under duress, I was told that unless I accept the £40 deals, then I would not get the higher paying assessments, and he ended the conversation immediately!
I know times are hard at the moment, but there are still those that are making money out of EPCs, and it is not DEA’s.
I think that it is time for all DEA’s to refuse work unless they can be paid an acceptable rate. And £35-£50 is NOT acceptable in my view. I appreciate why DEA’s take on the work, but they will not sustain their business in the long run.
The government should cease all training for two years, introduce a fixed price for an EPC, say around £90, for a 3 bed semi, less for flats, more for 4 bedroomed properties and above.
Failing that, let’s stop this charade, abolish HIPs, and make it compulsory for each property in the UK to have an energy certificate (as required by European law), by a set date, that can only be carried out by DEA’s (not Home Inspectors). Homeowners would then only have to deal with one person, the DEA, who would then be free to market themselves locally, as they wish, without being dictated to by Estate Agents, Solicitors and Panel Managers.
As the government is so into saving energy, perhaps they could subsidise the Homeowner for the EPC, as they have done for insulation etc. It would go some way into rectifying their complete lack of balls to set a market rate for an EPC in the first place!
Only then, will it be possible for DEA’s to recoup some of the money that they have given to these training companies, and eventually earn a reasonable living doing something that I think, we all enjoy doing – instead of just flogging a dead horse!
Does anyone else feel the same? Or is it just me?
Comments
EPC Market
I firmly agree with what all or most ofyou are saying , we need to take this away from the panels as a stand alone and only through a DEA, how do we start a motion to the goverment on this any ideas?
I have recently and like lots of others taken jobs at £40 but enough is enough, no more at these rates , it just does'nt pay.
They cant do the epc without us can they so we all need to say "No".
Your dead right - But
Well done phillip you summed most of the problems - but hey what have you against Home Inspectors yes i am one being qualified in June 2007. I first went into this training looking forward in providing Home Condition Surveys more detailed and cheaper than Home Buyer Reports.
We were promissed even more but then a bombshell while at the end and nearly qualified the government decided to not make it mandatory but to take out the epc cert and make that mandatory which they had to do to comply with european law.
But then not enough of us were qualified (about 1.5 thou) compared to the 4.5 needed so then they decided to bring out the Energy Asses qualification and then panic everyone wanted to be one and yes we are vastly over subscribed and i agree stop all the training.
Why should'nt we carry out epc inspections wasn't our qualification (Diploma in Home Inspection level 4) the first to carry out inspections. Why do energy assessors bicker against home inspectors and vice versa lets use our anger aginst the right people.
The main problem as you have highlighted is Estate Agents - It should be taken out of their hands, why should they take a cut, why now do we need panels we can provide the whole package but the only way we can go forward is to keep lobbying government all of us continualy and surely it will help in changing things and yes the rented sector seems good but panels are getting lots of them to - Why - back handers, sweetners.
Estate Agents and Panels want to make most if not all of the proffit and screw us down but like most of you have said dont do the work too cheap. I was offered today £22, £25 but. £3 going to a Head Assessor for arranging the appoitments What a joke, but obviously this firm is struggling to get people thank goodness .
Lets keep on to government we need a standard SET charge, Estate Agents should not be in charge We should be. I would be more than happy with your rate but i think possibly £75 would be enough at least to start.
Don't get me wrong
Ian, I can sympathise with you over the "woolly nature" of the government decision to take out the HCR from the HIP. You are in the position of having spent, probably, much more on your training that Energy Assessors, with the majority of your work now coming from EPCs only.
DEA's can, if they so wish, undergo additional training (at a cost of between £3k-£4k) to become home inspectors, and make huge amounts of money when qualified . . . . as promised if you became a DEA! But where is the guarantee that, after training, those rates will still be achieveable. There is none. I would willingly spend the money to become a HI, but am not prepared to do so, as we may end up in the same position as DEA's now find themselves – oversubscribed!
I agree, the government should set a rate for EPCs, and DEA’s should be in control of this, not Estate Agents, Solicitors or Panel Managers. And yes, DEA's and HI should be on the same side, focusing our efforts on getting a reasonable deal for the work put in.
LETS ALL SAY "NO" TO THESE RIDICULOUS RATES THAT ARE BEING OFFERED TO US! DEA's and HI's alike!
Undervalued by Panels and Public if this is allowed to continue
I've just found this quote "Your local Energy Assessor will contact you within 24 hours of your order to come and visit the property for about 30mins. Energy Assessors are generally flexible and can come anytime" on this site http://www.valuhips.co.uk/dummies-guide.php
Devaluing what a DEA does! How can we do inspections at Dusk or Night time? And how is every property going to take just 30 minutues? I did three two bedroom flats yesterday all 3 took an hour each on site. I was lucky that all were rental properties found through my own means -close together with one letting agent. Round trip 20 miles, back home in 5 hours on the PC for 2 hours - paid by BACS transfer one day later today.
Come on guys - say no to the panels. Say no to lowering price - there's always going to be somebody cheaper. Walk away sometimes - I had a call from a landlady in Devon this morning - she found my website but failed to spot my area before the telephone call - 8 flats all next to each other. The rental market is the way forward and say no to HIP panels like the one mentioned. These guys are clueless and very bad for our industry when they paint a picture like this.
Domestic Energy Assessor in St Albans and Hertfordshire
rentals
Rentals are definate the way forward - I have managed to get in with a few rental agents and charging £95 each one, but I know i will be busy for a few months but afer that it will just be the new instructions they get which won't be much.
I know I will have to do another job as well to make ends meet. I have been asked to do them for £40-£50 which I have said no and told them that the only way people are doing these are by cutting corners.Ie probally checking the loft insulation from their car!
Well done Philip you have said what we al feel!thank you
Accredited with Elmhurst in Sept 2007 (a year ago) I've been working in the Cheshire, Liverpool & Manchester areas so I can only talk from experience in the NW.
Like Philip I've seen EPC rates drop drastically nobody elses wage get cut by 50% in 12 months there would be stikes everywhere.
Back in Sept I got made redundant from my 8 year career as an Environmental Technician with ATKINS Consultants PLC. I anticipated this and found a worthy replacement career that allowed me to carry on being out on site, using my brain, helping the Environment and earn a good wage comparible to my ATKINS job of £20,000
I trained part-time behind the scenes and got qualified and started working as a DEA weekends & evenings. I was so busy it was ridiculus. Mainly from panel work with Move With Us.I was doing 11 per week.
Left ATKINs got a £6 per hour job in a local laboratory for the next 3 months and worked as a DEA part-time there too. I asked my new boss if I could have 1 day off a week to accommodate my new career . No. but when I told him I was getting £110 per EPC from 3 solicitors and £69 from a panel and get 13 jobs a week he said , go for it be brave and try Self-employment, at that rate you would be mad not to .
So I had a crazy May with 20 EPCs to do and a full week. Since then " Move with us " are one of the better payers at £55 per EPC but charge for the electronic diary system so I get £48 and go upto 100 miles in a day if the customers require. Energy Assessors who paid my Accreditation fee in exchange for £48 per EPC have gone, Hipstar gone, Hip-hip-horray gone? PSG struggling to keep there core staff busy never mind the exterior panel, ERS never giveme workthough I am on their panel similar story. A local rival pinched our most prolific £60 per EPC Estate Agent in a prime patch by offering £40 per EPC (allows the Agent to mark up the price and get a profit himself.)
Very mean but he has the cheek to ring us up and ask us to do EPCs for him to help him out for £45 instead of the £60 he said he wouldn't get out of bed for before.
My rates were 1 bed at £80, £2 bed -£90 , 3 bed -£100 , 4 bed £110 + extra rooms £10 no VAT , I still have 1 solicitor that likes us both and gets good feedback about us from clients he keeps us on at that rate .
The other solicitor now has rates £20 per catagory cheaper as she is bombarded with discount offers daily but wants to keep us on.
A further solicitor uses PSG as all her customers are skint and need deferred payment she cannot afford to subsidise herself so she said she would keep us both on as preferred DEAs if someone pays upfront or just wants an EPC but can we do it for £65 any house I had to say yes.
Letting Agents are just plain nasty and rude to me when I e-mail they ignore me, don't return my follow-up phone calls and say "no we've got someone unless you can go lower than our lowest offer from a DEA of £35 per any EPC
Who are these freaky people that want to work for a minimum wage they must be mad, imagine how many you have to do to earn £20,000 per annum. I cannot work / survive on the minimum wage I was there last Christmas I know.
I have thankfully found 2 letting agents that hadn't been nobbled yet and they were open to negotiation as long as we were trustworthy, hardworking, reliable and polite and friendly with his cutomers AT LAST a proper job interview.
He accepted our rates without hesitation and said they sound fair and he didn't see any need to get involved wanting to make 100 % profit on the EPC to the landlord, most do and this is a terrible practice.
I paid (my friend put it on her credit card and I am endebted to her for a year nearly) £2,700 for a stupid virtual tour camera , the software and technical support apparently.... to buy in to First for HIPs so I can work for Cheshire Building Society in one town and a patch out towards Warrington at a rate of £69 for all EPCs . The HIPs they supply are far cheaper than any other provider and they have a good name I may be the biggest mug on 2 legs or just secured my new career for another year. I love being a DEA and want to continue everyone says it suits me down to the ground its just the competition and the daft prices.
Anyone else with an interesting story of how they came to be a DEA?
- Tina Lawrence -
Domestic Energy Assessor in Cheshire and Northwich
EPC pricing
I would like the Government to step in and put a price on epc , but again there is no chance of that happening. The whole hip epc roll out was a complete fiasco instigated by the Government. The only people smiling were the training companies £3000 per person for a two week coarse, good work if you can get it.
Mark.
- Mark Davies -
Domestic Energy Assessor in North Cornelly and Bridgend
I Agree too
I find that it is very hard to set a price and stick to it unless you want to lose the job. I recently approached a couple of EAs who I found out were in the market for a DEA to do assessments on their behalf. To win the contract I lowered my price to £60 per EPC only to be told by one EA that they had somebody lined up for £36 and the other EA had somebody for £45 per EPC.
How do you compete with prices that low? I told the EA that for £36 they were probably getting a data collector and the answer I got was "It doesn't matter who collects the data and who produces the EPC as long as the EPC is produced and we can make some money out of it". Another EA told me that people don't care about service they just want fast and cheap results.
I like the idea about training being frozen and a set minimum price but I just can't see that happening. The training companies will keep on training people as long as the demand is there and you still ads saying that DEAs can earn upwards of 50k so the demand will be there.
I think it's a good idea to make the EPCs compulsory for all properties and not as part of the HIP and the Energy Assessment should only be carried out by a qualified and accreditated DEA.
- Jay Shah -
Domestic Energy Assessor in Peterborough and Cambridgeshire
I feel conned
I have to agree with Philip. In Northern Ireland we only started on 1/7/08. Sadly I was on holiday and have 'missed the boat.' Locally it seems DEA's have signed up to Estate Agents in some cases giving them a 'kick back' as one agent described to me. The poor client is not just paying the DEA but without knowing, the agent as well.
I have invested a lot of time and money in this to no avail.
Here in Northern Ireland the Department of Finance and Personnel have issued a letter informing sellers that they must have an EPC or potentially face a fine of £200. Due to the market being slow and in the current financial climate many sellers I speak to have no intention of acquiring a Cert until such times they believe they have a buyer. Hence no business!
I have tried just about everything in terms of publicity, advertizing, web site, targeted leaflet drop, Solicitors, Estate Agents etc etc, sum total 2 jobs in September!
WHAT A WASTE OF TIME!!!
- Mervyn Waddell -
Domestic Energy Assessor in Banbridge and Down
I agree
You have summed up the situation very well. As things are now it is just not worth doing epcs or hips at the prices being paid. I personally have set my minimum charge of £80 per epc £249 fh/hip & £279 lh/hip, only at this price is it worth doing taking all the costs involved. It all comes down to much you value yourself along with the fortitude to stand by your values.
Those that are doing EPCs for anything lower are just acting desperate, and are letting themselves to be taken advantage of. I for one will not fall into that camp. Wake up, you have the power to set your own rate, after all right now this is only be a bit of extra work and is not to be taken too seriously.
- Trevor Darbyshire -
DEA - Domestic Energy Assessor in Birchington and Kent
You Are Spot on
I came here this evening to maybe find some inspiration to carry on searching for a decent employer or at least some indication that there is half a chance of making a living with epc's. The first thing I see is your article in which you have basically (i think) said what most of us are thinking.
Anyone with any decency & principles would not be conned into such low paid assignments as you've mentioned. I mean £40 for an epc is daylight robbery & I'm certainly not in the mood to be treated like an idiot, especially after paying the ridiculous training costs, dedicationg 6 months of my life and travelling halfway across the country for each 'session'. (I do feel like an idiot now!!)
The government has a lot to answer for as do the training companies. They are laughing thier heads off every time they get their claws into a new ''potential DEA''.
Stick to your guns!
Don't give up you day job ( if you havn't got one you should start looking!)
p.s I am a little bitter, but 'HEY' tommorrows another day
- Ateeq Hussain -
Domestic Energy Assessor in Huddersfield and North Yorkshire
Mugged Off
I agree with all, why should the Government care, reading between the lines, my suspicions they have now got a free army of assessors that are gathering accurate information for them on sizes of property etc enabling to update the Council Tax database. We DEA's are actuall paying the Government for the privelage.
Now is the time for action, I am intending to petition to the Government that a fee is set to safeguard our chosen careers, as at the moment they look very shortlived. HIPs companies and Estate agents have ripped us off bigtime, now its the turn of the letting agents.
The fees recommended would be for example starting at £65 (up to 2 bed) £75 ( 3 or 4 bed) £85 (5+ bed).
Rental EPC should be updated annualy or up to a maximum of every 2 to 3 years (why HIPS EPCs are a year, and rental EPC are 10? Stupid or what?). On the EPC it informs the potential tenant that it would cost a certain amount of money to heat the premise. In 10 years that figure surely would be grossly wrong and seriously dated?
When we all advertise nationally we could forward work we personaly couldn't do to our other DEA collegues for say a £10 fee. Everyone would be happy.
If you would be happy to join my petition please forward your details to me at tonyfleming007@googlemail.com.
I will start the ball rolling. lets fight back
Regards
Tony Fleming